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	Comments on: The Second Circuit closes the door on service by email in China	</title>
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	<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2025/12/20/the-second-circuit-closes-the-door-on-service-by-email-in-china/</link>
	<description>The Blog of International Judicial Assistance</description>
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		<title>
		By: Ted Folkman		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2025/12/20/the-second-circuit-closes-the-door-on-service-by-email-in-china/#comment-52019</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Folkman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2025 14:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://lettersblogatory.com/?p=38746#comment-52019</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://lettersblogatory.com/2025/12/20/the-second-circuit-closes-the-door-on-service-by-email-in-china/#comment-52015&quot;&gt;Aaron Lukken&lt;/a&gt;.

There should be one agreed answer to whether email is part of the postal channel, but the C&#038;R on the topic is not self-evidently right. I like the “email is mail” metaphor, for reasons I’ve explained. But I also see the appeal of observing that all of the alternate methods of service in Article 10 have authorized people in the loop. In the early days of email there was some thought that postal services would offer e-post service. It generally hasn’t worked out that way.  It’s fair to ask whether something can be “postal” without a postman. 

Glad you like the haiku!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://lettersblogatory.com/2025/12/20/the-second-circuit-closes-the-door-on-service-by-email-in-china/#comment-52015">Aaron Lukken</a>.</p>
<p>There should be one agreed answer to whether email is part of the postal channel, but the C&amp;R on the topic is not self-evidently right. I like the “email is mail” metaphor, for reasons I’ve explained. But I also see the appeal of observing that all of the alternate methods of service in Article 10 have authorized people in the loop. In the early days of email there was some thought that postal services would offer e-post service. It generally hasn’t worked out that way.  It’s fair to ask whether something can be “postal” without a postman. </p>
<p>Glad you like the haiku!</p>
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		<title>
		By: A Hague-compliant roadmap for service on &#34;Schedule A&#34; defendants (updated December, 2025) &#124; Hague Law Blog		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2025/12/20/the-second-circuit-closes-the-door-on-service-by-email-in-china/#comment-52016</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Hague-compliant roadmap for service on &#34;Schedule A&#34; defendants (updated December, 2025) &#124; Hague Law Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2025 14:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://lettersblogatory.com/?p=38746#comment-52016</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] [The 12/2025 update&#8230; the 2d Circuit agrees, and Ted offers a new haiku!] [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] [The 12/2025 update&#8230; the 2d Circuit agrees, and Ted offers a new haiku!] [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aaron Lukken		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2025/12/20/the-second-circuit-closes-the-door-on-service-by-email-in-china/#comment-52015</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron Lukken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2025 13:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://lettersblogatory.com/?p=38746#comment-52015</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Often overstated indeed, especially if the plaintiff does no homework at the outset.  In this case, I speculate that a Hague Request by the plaintiff would have failed anyway, because they merely sue the Chinese defendants in their pidgin/phonetic names and not their actual legal names.

But had they done their homework and been unable to find an address, then the Convention wouldn&#039;t apply in the first place.  That would make 4(f)(3) e-service completely valid.

One thing the 2d Cir. opinion gets wrong is the contention that e-mail is not a postal channel.  The HCCH has much to say on the subject, as you&#039;ve covered extensively.  Thankfully, this is just dicta.

In any event, it&#039;s too bad SmartStudy&#039;s counsel weren&#039;t smart enough to study what we&#039;ve written.  Or to pick up the phone and spend ten minutes getting our thoughts.

(Spectacular haiku!)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Often overstated indeed, especially if the plaintiff does no homework at the outset.  In this case, I speculate that a Hague Request by the plaintiff would have failed anyway, because they merely sue the Chinese defendants in their pidgin/phonetic names and not their actual legal names.</p>
<p>But had they done their homework and been unable to find an address, then the Convention wouldn&#8217;t apply in the first place.  That would make 4(f)(3) e-service completely valid.</p>
<p>One thing the 2d Cir. opinion gets wrong is the contention that e-mail is not a postal channel.  The HCCH has much to say on the subject, as you&#8217;ve covered extensively.  Thankfully, this is just dicta.</p>
<p>In any event, it&#8217;s too bad SmartStudy&#8217;s counsel weren&#8217;t smart enough to study what we&#8217;ve written.  Or to pick up the phone and spend ten minutes getting our thoughts.</p>
<p>(Spectacular haiku!)</p>
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