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	Comments on: Case of the Day: Pitman v. Moll	</title>
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	<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/</link>
	<description>The Blog of International Judicial Assistance</description>
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		<title>
		By: Ted Folkman		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1853</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Folkman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2014 02:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=18055#comment-1853</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1852&quot;&gt;Alejandro Manevich&lt;/a&gt;.

I remember the &lt;em&gt;Yugraneft&lt;/em&gt; case: it was one of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://lettersblogatory.com/2011/01/20/case-of-the-day-yugraneft-corp-v-rexx-management-corp/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;very first I ever wrote about!&lt;/a&gt;

I confess I know very little about Canadian-style federalism. It strikes me, though, that the more power a national government has to implement the nation&#039;s international law obligations the better. Certainly the United States is not perfect in this regard, as the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/06-984.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Medellin&lt;/em&gt; case&lt;/a&gt; shows.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1852">Alejandro Manevich</a>.</p>
<p>I remember the <em>Yugraneft</em> case: it was one of the <a href="http://lettersblogatory.com/2011/01/20/case-of-the-day-yugraneft-corp-v-rexx-management-corp/" rel="nofollow ugc">very first I ever wrote about!</a></p>
<p>I confess I know very little about Canadian-style federalism. It strikes me, though, that the more power a national government has to implement the nation&#8217;s international law obligations the better. Certainly the United States is not perfect in this regard, as the <a href="http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/06-984.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc"><em>Medellin</em> case</a> shows.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alejandro Manevich		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1852</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alejandro Manevich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2014 17:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=18055#comment-1852</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1851&quot;&gt;Ted Folkman&lt;/a&gt;.

Ted, I was entirely unaware of the apparent split between the U.S. and Canada on the self-executing character of the &lt;i&gt;Hague Convention&lt;/i&gt;. The notion expressed in the cases you refer to, that the &lt;i&gt;Convention&lt;/i&gt; requires no specific legislative action, is reflected to a more limited extent in Canadian law through the canon of statutory construction that Canadian legislation and regulations should be interpreted to the extent possible in conformity with Canada&#039;s international obligations (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://canlii.ca/t/1rq5n&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;R. v. Hape&lt;/i&gt;, 2007 SCC 26&lt;/a&gt;).  That was the reasoning used by the judge in &lt;i&gt;Pitman&lt;/i&gt;, on the basis that there was a true gap in the &lt;i&gt;Family Law Rules&lt;/i&gt;. However, a treaty is normally self-executing in Canada only to the extent that it deals with executive branch functions or matters already addressed by legislation. I rather doubt treaties could simply take  precedence over provincial rules of civil procedure in all cases; this would seem inconsistent with Canadian constitutional law on federal-provincial division of powers and the implementation of treaties (see the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKPC/1937/1937_6.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Labour Conventions Cases (Canada (Attorney General) v. Ontario (Attorney General) et al.)&lt;/i&gt;, [1937] UKPC 6&lt;/a&gt;). 

At the risk of confirming the many legal jokes about Canadians and discussions of federalism, I would also refer you to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slaw.ca/2008/11/27/limitation-periods-and-enforcement-of-international-arbitral-awards/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;the discussion a few years ago on Slaw.ca regarding a case on the application of provincial limitation periods to the enforcement of foreign arbitral awards&lt;/a&gt; - a case that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slaw.ca/2009/02/26/scc-grants-leave-in-yugraneft/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;later made its way&lt;/a&gt; to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://canlii.ca/t/29sh0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Supreme Court of Canada&lt;/a&gt;. In the comments, John Gregory made some helpful points about the challenges of federalism and treaty implementation. (As John is a senior counsel for the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General, I should emphasize that his comments were not made in his official capacity.)

Alex]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1851">Ted Folkman</a>.</p>
<p>Ted, I was entirely unaware of the apparent split between the U.S. and Canada on the self-executing character of the <i>Hague Convention</i>. The notion expressed in the cases you refer to, that the <i>Convention</i> requires no specific legislative action, is reflected to a more limited extent in Canadian law through the canon of statutory construction that Canadian legislation and regulations should be interpreted to the extent possible in conformity with Canada&#8217;s international obligations (see <a href="http://canlii.ca/t/1rq5n" rel="nofollow ugc"><i>R. v. Hape</i>, 2007 SCC 26</a>).  That was the reasoning used by the judge in <i>Pitman</i>, on the basis that there was a true gap in the <i>Family Law Rules</i>. However, a treaty is normally self-executing in Canada only to the extent that it deals with executive branch functions or matters already addressed by legislation. I rather doubt treaties could simply take  precedence over provincial rules of civil procedure in all cases; this would seem inconsistent with Canadian constitutional law on federal-provincial division of powers and the implementation of treaties (see the <a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKPC/1937/1937_6.html" rel="nofollow ugc"><i>Labour Conventions Cases (Canada (Attorney General) v. Ontario (Attorney General) et al.)</i>, [1937] UKPC 6</a>). </p>
<p>At the risk of confirming the many legal jokes about Canadians and discussions of federalism, I would also refer you to <a href="http://www.slaw.ca/2008/11/27/limitation-periods-and-enforcement-of-international-arbitral-awards/" rel="nofollow ugc">the discussion a few years ago on Slaw.ca regarding a case on the application of provincial limitation periods to the enforcement of foreign arbitral awards</a> &#8211; a case that <a href="http://www.slaw.ca/2009/02/26/scc-grants-leave-in-yugraneft/" rel="nofollow ugc">later made its way</a> to the <a href="http://canlii.ca/t/29sh0" rel="nofollow ugc">Supreme Court of Canada</a>. In the comments, John Gregory made some helpful points about the challenges of federalism and treaty implementation. (As John is a senior counsel for the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General, I should emphasize that his comments were not made in his official capacity.)</p>
<p>Alex</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted Folkman		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1851</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Folkman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=18055#comment-1851</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1850&quot;&gt;Alejandro Manevich&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, Alex. That&#039;s particularly interesting, because under US law the Convention &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; self executing. &lt;em&gt;See Volkswagenwerk AG v. Schlunk,&lt;/em&gt; 486 U.S. 694, 699 (1988); &lt;em&gt;Vorhees v. Fischer &#038; Krecke,&lt;/em&gt; 697 F.2d 574, 575 (4th Cir. 1983). It seems to me that if, under Canadian law, the treaty is not self-executing, then of course you&#039;re right that the Canadian powers that be should amend the necessary rules to give effect to the Convention.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1850">Alejandro Manevich</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, Alex. That&#8217;s particularly interesting, because under US law the Convention <em>is</em> self executing. <em>See Volkswagenwerk AG v. Schlunk,</em> 486 U.S. 694, 699 (1988); <em>Vorhees v. Fischer &amp; Krecke,</em> 697 F.2d 574, 575 (4th Cir. 1983). It seems to me that if, under Canadian law, the treaty is not self-executing, then of course you&#8217;re right that the Canadian powers that be should amend the necessary rules to give effect to the Convention.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alejandro Manevich		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/30/case-day-pitman-v-moll/#comment-1850</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alejandro Manevich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=18055#comment-1850</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ted, I would like just to offer a couple of additional points that may be of interest to Canadian practitioners.  

The importance of this case from a Canadian perspective is that Ontario&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://canlii.ca/t/52533&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Family Law Rules&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, which govern civil procedure in family law proceedings, do not mention the &lt;i&gt;Hague Convention&lt;/i&gt; - in fact, as the judge notes, they do not even refer to service outside Ontario. The rules applicable to ordinary civil proceedings (the &lt;i&gt;Rules of Civil Procedure&lt;/i&gt;), by contrast, incorporate the &lt;i&gt;Hague Convention&lt;/i&gt; explicitly, at r. 17.05. In Canada, as in the U.S., treaties are not self-executing, so one could argue that the absence of any implementing provisions for the &lt;i&gt;Hague Convention&lt;/i&gt; in the &lt;i&gt;Family Law Rules&lt;/i&gt; means that as a matter of domestic Ontario law, service under the &lt;i&gt;Convention&lt;/i&gt; is not required.  That argument is now significantly less likely. 

I have heard anecdotally that many family law practitioners are unaware of the &lt;i&gt;Convention&lt;/i&gt; and have not used it for serving documents &lt;i&gt;ex juris&lt;/i&gt;. In addition, family law proceedings in particular see a disproportionately high number of self-represented litigants, who presumably are even less likely to know about the rules for serving documents abroad.  I should add that plain language &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/guides/fc/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;&quot;Guide to Procedures in Family Court&quot; on the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General&#039;s own website&lt;/a&gt; says nothing about this either. (Though it does give the caveat that the guide is not legal advice, which I am sure the legions of family law litigants who cannot afford a lawyer will take to heart.)

For what it&#039;s worth, I do think &lt;i&gt;Pitman&lt;/i&gt; is correct as a matter of law. However, I also think it has the potential to exacerbate already challenging problems of access to justice for family litigants.  I would think the least our system could do is amend the &lt;i&gt;Family Law Rules&lt;/i&gt; as quickly as possible, since in their current form they are a trap for the unwary.

Alex]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, I would like just to offer a couple of additional points that may be of interest to Canadian practitioners.  </p>
<p>The importance of this case from a Canadian perspective is that Ontario&#8217;s <a href="http://canlii.ca/t/52533" rel="nofollow ugc"><i>Family Law Rules</i></a>, which govern civil procedure in family law proceedings, do not mention the <i>Hague Convention</i> &#8211; in fact, as the judge notes, they do not even refer to service outside Ontario. The rules applicable to ordinary civil proceedings (the <i>Rules of Civil Procedure</i>), by contrast, incorporate the <i>Hague Convention</i> explicitly, at r. 17.05. In Canada, as in the U.S., treaties are not self-executing, so one could argue that the absence of any implementing provisions for the <i>Hague Convention</i> in the <i>Family Law Rules</i> means that as a matter of domestic Ontario law, service under the <i>Convention</i> is not required.  That argument is now significantly less likely. </p>
<p>I have heard anecdotally that many family law practitioners are unaware of the <i>Convention</i> and have not used it for serving documents <i>ex juris</i>. In addition, family law proceedings in particular see a disproportionately high number of self-represented litigants, who presumably are even less likely to know about the rules for serving documents abroad.  I should add that plain language <a href="http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/guides/fc/" rel="nofollow ugc">&#8220;Guide to Procedures in Family Court&#8221; on the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General&#8217;s own website</a> says nothing about this either. (Though it does give the caveat that the guide is not legal advice, which I am sure the legions of family law litigants who cannot afford a lawyer will take to heart.)</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I do think <i>Pitman</i> is correct as a matter of law. However, I also think it has the potential to exacerbate already challenging problems of access to justice for family litigants.  I would think the least our system could do is amend the <i>Family Law Rules</i> as quickly as possible, since in their current form they are a trap for the unwary.</p>
<p>Alex</p>
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