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	Comments on: Belfast Project: Are The Tapes Worth Anything In The Ivor Bell Case?	</title>
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	<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/</link>
	<description>The Blog of International Judicial Assistance</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:43:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		By: Belfast Project: Ivor Bell Acquitted &#124; Letters Blogatory		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1800</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Belfast Project: Ivor Bell Acquitted &#124; Letters Blogatory]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1800</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] to show that the speaker on the tapes was indeed Bell. I wrote about the issue of authenticity back in April 2014. But no, the judge wrote that &#8220;the evidence that Z [the pseudonym used to identify the [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] to show that the speaker on the tapes was indeed Bell. I wrote about the issue of authenticity back in April 2014. But no, the judge wrote that &#8220;the evidence that Z [the pseudonym used to identify the [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: Belfast Project: Ivor Bell To Stand Trial &#124; Letters Blogatory		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1799</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Belfast Project: Ivor Bell To Stand Trial &#124; Letters Blogatory]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1799</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] a role in the killing, or at least that&#8217;s what the UK government believes it has. I&#8217;ve previously noted some of the evidentiary issues the interview tapes might [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] a role in the killing, or at least that&#8217;s what the UK government believes it has. I&#8217;ve previously noted some of the evidentiary issues the interview tapes might [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: Belfast Project: Chris Bray On The The Ivor Bell Case &#124; Letters Blogatory		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1798</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Belfast Project: Chris Bray On The The Ivor Bell Case &#124; Letters Blogatory]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2015 10:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1798</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Chris Bray, friend of Letters Blogatory and critic of the US and UK governments in the Belfast Project case, is back with an update on the British authorities&#8217; decision to proceed with the prosecution of Ivor Bell. [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Chris Bray, friend of Letters Blogatory and critic of the US and UK governments in the Belfast Project case, is back with an update on the British authorities&#8217; decision to proceed with the prosecution of Ivor Bell. [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: Ted Folkman		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1797</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Folkman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2014 15:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1797</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1796&quot;&gt;P Smith&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, P Smith. I will need your help on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://lettersblogatory.com/2014/05/01/belfast-project-gerry-adams-arrested-mcconville-murder-case/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Gerry Adams arrest post&lt;/a&gt;, too!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1796">P Smith</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, P Smith. I will need your help on the <a href="http://lettersblogatory.com/2014/05/01/belfast-project-gerry-adams-arrested-mcconville-murder-case/" rel="nofollow ugc">Gerry Adams arrest post</a>, too!</p>
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		By: P Smith		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1796</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2014 14:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1796</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1795&quot;&gt;Ted Folkman&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/94/section/8&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Section 8&lt;/a&gt; of the Accessories and Abettors Act 1861, which I believe is in force in Northern Ireland in the amended version linked, provides that aiders, abettors, counsellors and procurers of indictable offences shall be dealt with as principal offenders.

In England and Wales there are limits on the number of days an accused can be detained in custody between first appearance before a court and the start of a trial, but no actual limit on when the trial must start, although the Secretary of State does have power to make regulations imposing such an overall limit (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/23/section/22&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Prosecution of Offences Act 1985, s. 22&lt;/a&gt;; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title=Prosecution%20of%20Offences%20%28Custody%20Time%20Limits%29%20Regulations&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Prosecution of Offences (Custody Time Limits) Regulations 1987 as amended&lt;/a&gt;). 

In Northern Ireland there is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/2003/1247/article/12&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;provision&lt;/a&gt; equivalent to section 22 of the 1985 Act conferring power to make regulations imposing such time limits, but so far as I can discover that provision is not yet in force (a further order by the Secretary of State is necessary for that to occur) and so no regulations have been made.

In Scotland the position appears to be governed by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/46/section/65&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;sections 65&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/46/section/147&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;147&lt;/a&gt; of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995.

ECHR Article 6 in part provides that &quot;everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law&quot;. As ever, what constitutes a &quot;reasonable time&quot; depends on the circumstances of the particular case.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1795">Ted Folkman</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/94/section/8" rel="nofollow ugc">Section 8</a> of the Accessories and Abettors Act 1861, which I believe is in force in Northern Ireland in the amended version linked, provides that aiders, abettors, counsellors and procurers of indictable offences shall be dealt with as principal offenders.</p>
<p>In England and Wales there are limits on the number of days an accused can be detained in custody between first appearance before a court and the start of a trial, but no actual limit on when the trial must start, although the Secretary of State does have power to make regulations imposing such an overall limit (<a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/23/section/22" rel="nofollow ugc">Prosecution of Offences Act 1985, s. 22</a>; <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title=Prosecution%20of%20Offences%20%28Custody%20Time%20Limits%29%20Regulations" rel="nofollow ugc">Prosecution of Offences (Custody Time Limits) Regulations 1987 as amended</a>). </p>
<p>In Northern Ireland there is <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/2003/1247/article/12" rel="nofollow ugc">provision</a> equivalent to section 22 of the 1985 Act conferring power to make regulations imposing such time limits, but so far as I can discover that provision is not yet in force (a further order by the Secretary of State is necessary for that to occur) and so no regulations have been made.</p>
<p>In Scotland the position appears to be governed by <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/46/section/65" rel="nofollow ugc">sections 65</a> and <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/46/section/147" rel="nofollow ugc">147</a> of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995.</p>
<p>ECHR Article 6 in part provides that &#8220;everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law&#8221;. As ever, what constitutes a &#8220;reasonable time&#8221; depends on the circumstances of the particular case.</p>
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		By: Ted Folkman		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1795</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Folkman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1795</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1794&quot;&gt;Chris Bray&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, Chris. You are right that Bell is charged with aiding and abetting the kidnapping and murder, and not with actually committing the murder or doing the kidnapping. I don&#039;t know the law on this in Northern Ireland; in the U.S., though, there is no difference in the attribution of guilt to the principal or to an aider or abettor. Under 18 U.S.C. &#167; 2, &quot;Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.&quot; 

The case may not be tried &quot;anytime soon,&quot; but I assume that in the UK, as here, once charges are brought, there are substantive and procedural rules limiting the amount of time the government has to bring the case to trial, unless the defendant waives them. Perhaps P. Smith will comment on these points.

Has the PSNI ever said that its target is Gerry Adams?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1794">Chris Bray</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, Chris. You are right that Bell is charged with aiding and abetting the kidnapping and murder, and not with actually committing the murder or doing the kidnapping. I don&#8217;t know the law on this in Northern Ireland; in the U.S., though, there is no difference in the attribution of guilt to the principal or to an aider or abettor. Under 18 U.S.C. &sect; 2, &#8220;Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.&#8221; </p>
<p>The case may not be tried &#8220;anytime soon,&#8221; but I assume that in the UK, as here, once charges are brought, there are substantive and procedural rules limiting the amount of time the government has to bring the case to trial, unless the defendant waives them. Perhaps P. Smith will comment on these points.</p>
<p>Has the PSNI ever said that its target is Gerry Adams?</p>
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		By: Chris Bray		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1794</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Bray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2014 23:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1794</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Important to mention here that Ivor Bell has not been charged with kidnapping or killing Jean McConville. The charges are for aiding and abetting, and the allegation appears to be that he was asked his opinion regarding the appropriate way to deal with Jean McConville (as a suspected informer), and gave it. There is no allegation that he participated directly in any event related to McConville&#039;s death and disappearance, and Bell has been released. Also, the prosecutor said in court that he didn&#039;t anticipate bringing the case to trail anytime soon. This arrest has no substance to it -- it&#039;s not for the crime being investigated, and it is unlikely to lead to a trial in anything resembling the near future.

Meanwhile, Gerry Adams says he has had his lawyers contact the PSNI with an offer to submit to questioning. There is no sign that the PSNI has bothered to question the person who is supposed to be the target of their investigation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Important to mention here that Ivor Bell has not been charged with kidnapping or killing Jean McConville. The charges are for aiding and abetting, and the allegation appears to be that he was asked his opinion regarding the appropriate way to deal with Jean McConville (as a suspected informer), and gave it. There is no allegation that he participated directly in any event related to McConville&#8217;s death and disappearance, and Bell has been released. Also, the prosecutor said in court that he didn&#8217;t anticipate bringing the case to trail anytime soon. This arrest has no substance to it &#8212; it&#8217;s not for the crime being investigated, and it is unlikely to lead to a trial in anything resembling the near future.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, Gerry Adams says he has had his lawyers contact the PSNI with an offer to submit to questioning. There is no sign that the PSNI has bothered to question the person who is supposed to be the target of their investigation.</p>
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		By: Ted Folkman		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1793</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Folkman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2014 01:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1793</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1792&quot;&gt;P Smith&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, P Smith. I think what I&#039;ve written is basically compatible with what you&#039;ve written, and I am grateful for the additional detail about interviews under caution.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1792">P Smith</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, P Smith. I think what I&#8217;ve written is basically compatible with what you&#8217;ve written, and I am grateful for the additional detail about interviews under caution.</p>
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		By: P Smith		</title>
		<link>https://lettersblogatory.com/2014/04/09/belfast-project-tapes-worth-anything-ivor-bell-case/#comment-1792</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2014 16:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lettersblogatory.com/?p=17939#comment-1792</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is no substance in Moloney&#039;s second point; if Z is shown to  be Bell then the tape is a confession and so (in the absence of any credible suggestion that Z was subjected to &quot;torture, inhuman or degrading treatment, and the use or threat of violence (whether or not amounting to torture)&quot; by his interviewer, or the circumstances of the interview were such as to make his confession unreliable) admissible under &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1989/1341/article/74&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;article 74&lt;/a&gt; of the Police and Criminal Evidence (Northern Ireland) Order 1989. But the court could still exclude the tape under its &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1989/1341/article/76&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;article 76&lt;/a&gt; discretion if it was so persuaded.

The absence of a caution in an interview conducted by a journalist on the promise of confidentiality is both not surprising and irrelevant.

The requirement to caution a person (whether under arrest or not) before questioning them about their suspected involvement in an offence is currently to be found in paragraph 10.1 of PACE Code of Practice C (available &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dojni.gov.uk/the-police-and-criminal-evidence-northern-ireland-order-1989-codes-of-practice&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;; see articles 65 and 66 of the 1989 Order). The PACE Codes do not apply to interviews conducted by journalists, because journalists are neither police officers nor &quot;persons other than police officers who are charged with the duty of investigating offences or charging offenders&quot; (1989 Order, article 66(8)). 

The relevant law would be that in force at the time of the interview, with which I am not familiar, but it seems unlikely that there was ever a requirement for anyone other than a police officer or similar official to caution a person before questioning them about their involvement in an offence.

If Z is not shown to be Bell then the tape is almost certainly inadmissible.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no substance in Moloney&#8217;s second point; if Z is shown to  be Bell then the tape is a confession and so (in the absence of any credible suggestion that Z was subjected to &#8220;torture, inhuman or degrading treatment, and the use or threat of violence (whether or not amounting to torture)&#8221; by his interviewer, or the circumstances of the interview were such as to make his confession unreliable) admissible under <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1989/1341/article/74" rel="nofollow ugc">article 74</a> of the Police and Criminal Evidence (Northern Ireland) Order 1989. But the court could still exclude the tape under its <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1989/1341/article/76" rel="nofollow ugc">article 76</a> discretion if it was so persuaded.</p>
<p>The absence of a caution in an interview conducted by a journalist on the promise of confidentiality is both not surprising and irrelevant.</p>
<p>The requirement to caution a person (whether under arrest or not) before questioning them about their suspected involvement in an offence is currently to be found in paragraph 10.1 of PACE Code of Practice C (available <a href="http://www.dojni.gov.uk/the-police-and-criminal-evidence-northern-ireland-order-1989-codes-of-practice" rel="nofollow ugc">here</a>; see articles 65 and 66 of the 1989 Order). The PACE Codes do not apply to interviews conducted by journalists, because journalists are neither police officers nor &#8220;persons other than police officers who are charged with the duty of investigating offences or charging offenders&#8221; (1989 Order, article 66(8)). </p>
<p>The relevant law would be that in force at the time of the interview, with which I am not familiar, but it seems unlikely that there was ever a requirement for anyone other than a police officer or similar official to caution a person before questioning them about their involvement in an offence.</p>
<p>If Z is not shown to be Bell then the tape is almost certainly inadmissible.</p>
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